Hi again,

not really an urgent topic in my case, but I think it's worth discussing. Plus I might have completely missed the point so don't hesitate to shoot at this :-)

As far as I read the doc, it seems that files are either private or public. There is no possibility of sharing files with a selected number of users.

Practical example: I might want to share a file with user X, but I don't want the file to be of public access.

Other example: a community creates a common area containing files accessible by all community members. Ideally, all downloads made by a community member would be accounted in his/her download bandwidth usage.

Hope it helps and looking forward for some feedback

ciao Luca

 

Sharing amongst groups or having group based permissions is something that has broad reaching use and has been considered by us for some time.  While we have been planning it we have not started on this particular piece.  Realistically it can be done but you will have to manage the users yourself and provide download links to those people who are allowed to download the file.  Since you can restrict by IP Address this is ideal because they will not be able to share with one another the links.

You could take a look at freedrive.com since this is the exact system they have designed allowing public, private and friends downloads.

Regards,
    Barry R.
 

Hi Barry,

I had a look at freedrive.com, but the concept I have in mind is different.

I don't think a full group based permission is necessary, it could be an enhancement to the existing methods.

Imagine you have a closed community of people sharing files, e.g. high quality images (just an example). Images are centrally stored and users pay for the bandwidth used...

I can of course provide a link with IP restriction (excellent functionality btw), but the bandwidth usage will be  accounted under the main account.

Ideally the main account should be able to provide a download link, but the bandwidth usage should be accounted under the selected child account...

Not sure how feasable this is, but you could see this as an enhancement to the download functionality, where the master account can decide whether
he wants to charge the bandwidth to the main account or to the user...

hope it clarifies

ciao Luca

 

 This becomes a bit wierd because you are now billing against a body that did not host the file.  Actually what you are asking may be possible through the master account but in reverse of what you want.  I'm failry certain you can store a file at a child account and use the master account to download it through a absolute path IE GetOptimalURLs using the master account and pointing at \\application\child\path\file.txt.  While this isn't exaclty what you want it could allow you to do some of what you need.  I wouldn't hand out a session token of the master account for security reasons but a download link has no ability other than to download a single file.

Let me know if this solves your problem.

Regards,
     Barry R.

Hi Barry,

I am probably not explaining myself in the correct manner or I am missing something... sorry :-)

I think this is due to the different concept I am thinking of. I'll try again:

1- You have community website where people upload high quality images. Images are organised, categorised and approved before they make it to the common area so that there are no duplicates.

2- All images centrally managed by the community are stored in a common area (i.e. the main account) that has no limitations in terms of download or storage.

3- Community members can download the files, but there are limitations on the bandwidth usage for each member.

The logic is: if you want to download 1 TB of data, you should pay for it.

So, the question is: how can I bill the download bandwidth to a child account if the file downloaded is hosted under the main account?

as far as I know I can't at the moment, but I think it is needed for developing the above mentioned type of websites...

let me know if I am still not clear :-)

ciao Luca
 

Luca:

I think you may have still confused me as I've followed this thread.  Why not do something like the following:

1. Make it so that any member can upload a photo for review using the "behind-the-scenes" Master Account.
2. Once the members (or however your process works) have reviewed the photo to ensure it's OK and not a dupe you can then "Authorize" the file and it will be moved into the users Child Account.
3. Now that it's in the Child Account you can create a public link to it so that anyone can download it.  However, if you only want members to download the file then you will need to use a simple file access scheme.  That is, use a PHP (I'm pretty sure that's what your using as I've read other posts of yours) application that will manage links to downloads.  So the end-users (members) will never see the REAL public download link and then you can have it recreate the link every hour, every day, or what-have-you.  That way if they do share the link the damage is minimized.

Or, better yet, you could have the download link generated dynamically.  For example, the user clicks a link to download the photo and the application creates a download link (really a scrambled pointer to the real link).  Once the link is clicked the link will be removed from the database and can no longer be used again.  This would totally prevent sharing of the link.

So it is YOU that needs to manage this capability and not really something that Nirvanix needs to create for us.  I hope that answers your question.

Hi Joshua,

thanks a lot for your answer, discussing really helps reasoning...

you are right I made some confusion, especially when I mixed 2 topics in 1 thread (not a clever thing to do I agree :-)

Issue 1- Sharing links should be managed by my application, much easier and I can retain better control over the process.. you are right, thanks!

While discussing issue 1 (my original issue) I did mix a second issue concerning the accounting of download usage. 

That's indeed a separate issue, where I am basically wondering if I could use the nice Nirvanix download limits to control how much users actually download from files being hosted under the main account...

So, Issue 1 is solved, but if you have any idea on the second one, let me know...  

I hope I am not confusing more than I already have! :-) 

 ciao Luca
 

 

Luca:

Ok, so lets say a member uploads a photo.  You then, through your process, determine that its OK to save the file permanently.  Well, when the user uploaded the file you would have included some metadata with the upload indicating the uploader's login ID.  Once approved you would then move that file from the Master Account storage area to the users Child Account storage area.

Once the file is there you should then be able to make it publicly accessible.  Once that is complete you will use solution #1 (described previously) to create the generated link.  So, when people download the file it will count on that Child Accounts usage.

Barry, you may want to confirm this.

Hi Joshua,

 not sure why I did not think of it before, the example I was referring to (upload and share to large community) it's like what they do in Rapidshare.com or Megaupload.com.

As you suggested the management of the links via a php application is the best solution, but for the bandwidth usage I thought it would be better to use the Nivanix accounting system as it precisely measure the downloaded data, even if partial...

Through the PHP link application I can only count how many times a user clicks on a link, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the download was completed. Or I am missing something?

For solution like Rapidshare/Megaupload the bandwidth measurement and the right accounting is essential...

again, feedback is very much appreciated

ciao

 Luca
 

 

 

It would be best to use Nirvanix's account system to track the downloads/uploads.  But again, I'm not sure if by moving the file to the Child account ensures that the child account will be billed for the downloads.  We'll need Barry to chime in on this and confirm that.  Glad to have been of service.

I will just explain how billing works since there seems to be a number of good possible solutions.  When a session token is generated it is tied to a specific account.  Since the billing will be done on whatever session token access the files (or download token based on a session token) you can decide who gets the usage based on which session token you use.  This means a parent account will be billed if you generate a session token from that account even if you access a child accounts files.  Subsequently, a child accounts session token can only be used to download from that child accounts files where the usage will be applied.

Let me know If i have made things more clear.  The above solution to move the files to the child account makes sense to me and probably what I would do.  This way you can push out to child groups based on what they need and also take advantage of the total file storage size as well while keeping the original file on the unlocked account (master or unlimited child.)

Regards,
    Barry R.
 

Barry:

Thanks for updating the post with the excellent information.  Sounds like the solution I offered, and the excellent token system that Nirvanix offers will work together nicely to provide the solution that Luca is in need of!

Thanks Barry,

this really clarifies a lot and it's line of what I was thinking in relation to sharing and downloading (though my english might not have expressed it properly)

I understand the logic of attaching billing to the accessing token and account, it makes absolute sense and it works perfectly for applications like freedrive.

For sharing/download solutions though (like Megaupload or Rapidshare) I find the proposed solution (push to child account) a bit cumbersome, as the process would roughly be something like:

1- Sideload file from Master (or infinite Child) to Child Account

2- GetOptimalURL for the Child Account (so that the billing is linked to the Child Account)

3- Delete file after download from Child Account

On top of this we should consider the additional costs involved as basically all downloads generete also an upload as they are Sideloaded to the child accounts.

Ideally it should be possible to provide a download link where the downloaded data is billed to a specified account regadless on whether the account is hosting the file or not...

Again, I am not sure what would be the best solution for this, but ideally we should be able to just make one simple call instead of 3/4 steps...

hope this helps...

ciao

Luca
 

 

I will relay this to the team and see if there is an enhancement that will make our system more flexible in this way.  Also, I will try to think of a different way of handling this that would be easier for you to implement.

Regards,
     Barry R.

Luca & Barry:

I can see where each of you stands in this gray area.  On one had the consumers of the web services (that's us Luca) would like to have every feature and programming done for us.  However, priorities have to come in and I can't see this being a high priority at this time.

My reasoning is this, it would be easy enough for you to leave that file in the Master account all of the time.  Since you are already planning to create custom download links (to keep people from passing around a static download links) you can easily add a method to the download so that it ticks a counter in a database or XML file.  That way you can "count" how many times the file was downloaded (whether the download completes or not is not trackable without client-side programming).  So at the end of every month, or what-have-you, you can bill the person based on the number of downloads recorded for that file and a simple bandwidth calculation for the given file size.  That would be a simple workaround to this issue.

I hope all that makes sense.